Interview with Stephen Abernathy

Discover the inner workings of the mind of a man who enjoys being married to a powerful woman and why he would have it no other way.

An Interview with Stephen Abernathy, musician and husband of author Barbara Wright Abernathy. (Excerpted from Venus On Top: Women Who Are Born To Lead And The Men Who Love Them)

I asked Stephen to pretend I was a reporter who was trying to understand why and how a man could feel comfortable living with a strong and powerful woman at the helm. So in his answers he speaks of me in the third person.

BWA: What were you looking for in a woman?

STEPHEN: I wanted to find an intelligent, mature, responsible woman that I could relate with, that was from my generation. I wasn't looking for youth. I had 21 years of a good marriage with some ups and downs like any marriage.

I wanted to find a woman who was mature in her ideas. Spirituality played a big part in it, but not any kind of organized religion. I wanted a woman who was adventurous, someone I could go camping with, hiking, flying, any kind of activity like that. I also wanted someone who would be interested in my music and my career because my ex would never come to any of my gigs.

BWA: What characteristics had to grow in you in order to appreciate such a woman?

STEPHEN: I think they were always there but they were repressed in my last marriage. When I came out to California in the early 70's I found more enlightenment in the women in general. After my marriage, I just had to learn to look for things in a person that I didn't want to continue the second time around. I didn't really plan on getting married again. After the divorce I just wanted to date other women, have fun and see what was out there.

Barbi, to me, is the epitome of woman unleashed, the new woman: idealistic in one sense but so ethereal and mysterious at the same time. I wanted to get to know her better when I first met her. The first time I met her I gave her a hug. There was an aura about her.

When we sat next to each other at the coffee shop on our first date; she had these leggings on with little mountain boots, a cute little blonde. I felt very comfortable with Barbi. Then when I found out she was from New Jersey, I said, "Uh, oh!" I thought she was going to be one these typical East Coasters like I used to date back in the 's when I lived there, but lo and behold, she came out to California and got enlightened.

JEEZ! She was from Jersey, Italian, lots of family back there. Me, from Brooklyn, Italian, lots of family back there! Imagine, meeting in California! Then we discovered that our families back there lived 30 minutes away from each other. And on and on it went.

My god, we talked for hours and then the night was over. Long story short; our next date was 13 hours, an all day affair, and then we started seeing each other seriously.

BWA: Once you did start thinking about marriage, what were your objectives and strategies for long-term success?

STEPHEN: When we were dating I wasn't thinking about marriage and I don't remember when the issue came up. When I moved in with her; then the goal was marriage. Let's see if we can live together first. There was no real strategy involved.

B. Do you think the different phases of life make it more or less likely that a woman would lead in the marriage?

Stephen: I think a woman-led marriage could happen in any phase of life. It depends on who is the more qualified of the two. Since I was more qualified to handle the finances in my household for 21 years, I did it. I would say that the most qualified person of the two should be the one to handle the finances. And whoever handles the finances doesn't make it a woman or man-led marriage; it just means that the financial head is the person more capable.

But as far as making decisions and things, I think that a man should be more open-minded in the way he perceives a woman and her abilities because of the way women have been pushed down for so long. Although I'm not a proponent of women's lib movement per se, they did start out good. They just ended up putting women in men's suits with padded shoulders, you know, and tried to make men out of them when that really wasn't the goal.

The goal was for a woman to have her freethinking spirit open up and blossom like a flower. And it was to have men understand that all a woman wants is to be listened to. And if he gives her that right, that respect, that he can sit and listen to her and understand where she's coming from, whether he leads the marriage financially or not, that's the key. The understanding is that men and women are not that different, but in some ways we are that different. Women don't necessarily want us to solve their problems; they just want to be listened to. Then they'll do the solving themselves.

BWA: How does the decision process go in your marriage?

STEPHEN: Barbi comes up with an idea, and then she discusses it with me, or vice versa.

BWA: Do you feel that your viewpoint is heard?

STEPHEN: Well, certainly. If I didn't, I wouldn't be here.

BWA: What do you want in your marriage as far as affection and sex goes?

STEPHEN: Umm...As much as possible. Especially from her. She's the mistress of the bedroom, takes very good care of me.

BWA: Do you feel that Barbi has mainly trained you, or do you feel that you have in a way trained each other?

STEPHEN: Probably, trained each other. When we came into this relationship it was a new concept. That's maybe why we were a little jittery. I knew it was an open-ended thing. I was going to come up to the mountain and we were going to see if it would work. It was a new revelation to me that, hey, there is a woman out there who will cater to my needs and my wants and at the same time I can cater to her needs and her wants, while both of us are on a learning curve, in a learning experience of trying something new.

This relationship of ours is very different from my last relationship. I pretty much leave all the financial matters to her, after discussion with her, because I figure she's got the noggin for it. She's better at it than me!

BWA: What was your least favorite training process?

STEPHEN: Learning to dust before I vacuum. I used to go straight for the vacuum cleaner. I had years of experience with my kids, so housework to me was nothing new. I'd been doing it for a long time for my kids. I thought I knew how to be Mr. Mom.

BWA: But it sounds like Barbi did need to train you how she likes things done, what she thinks is the proper way to do it.

STEPHEN: Well, certainly. And I respected that. And it's a good thing. Cause the house stays cleaner!

But she learned how to accept a man's adaptability. I think that she thought, with her other marriages, that men were too rigid, that there's no flexibility in manhood. I showed her a different route. I call men like me sensitives; we're sensitive to women's needs and wants and I'm sure there are other men out there that are like me, that think men and women are equal. In fact I think women are superior because they have the ability to focus on many different subjects, where we are just like a horse with blinders.

We see one thing at a time. You know, like, go to the store, get the item and come home. That's the way we think, like a soldier. Achieve your objective and get back as quick as possible.

There are guys like me out there who believe that women have a moral obligation, really, to teach us a few things. I am aware of the fact that my wife is more powerful than I am. Many women are more powerful than men when fully released to their ambitions. It's a changing world out there. It's a new century and a lot of thinking has to be changed all around, from political down to domestic and personal.

BWA: When there is conflict, how is it handled?

STEPHEN: I don't think there is any conflict. I can't think of any real conflicts that we've had. Maybe me being aggravated and saying something and walking away.

BWA: What about emotional upsets?

STEPHEN: Depends on the outburst. If it's at the computer, which is about 90% of the time, then I just let it lie. I figure she's totally capable of taking care of her computer needs, and even though she's cussing a blue streak, it's not my involvement, so I just keep on doing what I'm doing.

BWA: So you feel conflict is pretty rare in your relationship?

STEPHEN: Yeah, pretty rare. You know, we see eye to eye on a lot of different things, I'd say 98% of everything. And if there is a conflict, it's usually something that's real asinine, mostly on my part. What we have to remember is that if one person is going crazy, the other one has to stay sane and centered. And that's a rule that she taught me.

BWA: So only one person can go crazy at a time?

STEPHEN: Yeah, that was a valuable lesson that I learned from her.

BWA: So when you see your partner starting to go crazy then that's the time when you most need to stay centered and not participate in the craziness?

STEPHEN: It depends on who is driving the car when it happens. (laughs)

BWA: What could you say about the path that led you to being in a woman-led marriage and made you realize that's what you wanted to be in?

STEPHEN: I never thought that the man had to be the leader, even back when I got out of college in the early 70's. Like I said before, whoever is the more capable of the two should handle the finances. Just because you handle the finances, that doesn't mean you're the boss. Really to me, in a relationship, there should be no boss. If you're going to be boss, you should both be arm in arm boss over the kids.

BWA: So you don't feel like Barbi is your boss

STEPHEN: No. Except when I do some office work for her, like sending out books. But boss doesn't really come into it. The word has no meaning for me. I was always pretty much my own boss, even when I worked for someone else; I had a lot of responsibility. That's why I was in business for myself for years and years

BWA: What would you say to other men who might feel that this kind of relationship could detract from their manhood?

STEPHEN: I don't feel that way;there are a lot of Mr. Mom's in this country. And to me that's good training. We are all both male and female. Men have a male and female side, and women have a male and female side. That's what this book is about. So I don't think that there's any risk to my masculinity just because I take care of the house and do the things I need to do around here to keep the place clean, run errands and all. I also work on my own career and get a lot of support with that. Barbi does support me in my career and I really respect and appreciate that because I didn't have that in my last marriage and that's something that's important to me.

Nobody can say he's more of a man or less of a man because he does a lot of the domestic work. I think that's just a natural part of being human. I did it when I had my apartment by myself. I had to wash the dishes, clean the tub, sweep, vacuum. Those things are a normal part of life, so for a man to feel that that hinders his masculinity doesn't make any sense to me. I think there are a lot of good marriages out there where the man helps the woman, they pitch in, and they clean together. I think that's more the normal than not. I am relaxed about my masculinity. I don't have a problem with any of it.

BWA: What are the advantages and disadvantages of having a powerful woman as your wife?

STEPHEN: I don't think there are any disadvantages. I think they're all advantages. This is the 21st Century and things are changing. I don't see any deficit at all in my relationship with my wife. One of the best advantages is peace of mind, knowing that someone is fully capable of taking care of whatever needs to be taken care of, and I don't have to worry about it at all.

I know that she's fully capable. And if she does have any problems and she needs my assistance, she comes to me and we hammer it out. I think that's a good thing. I think men and women should work together like that. To me that's normal. And because I did live another way for 20 plus years, it just gave me an insight into the other side. So I have both perspectives.

BWA: So you prefer having a woman who can stand on her own two feet and is not dependent on you.

STEPHEN: I know that every man wants a great helpmate and every woman wants a great helpmate, so it's a hand-in-hand type of thing. That's why the figure eight is a symbol of eternity. There's that communication between the two spirits and it's a closed link. When you have a man and a woman that are linked together that way it's a give and take relationship that's on a par.

The equilibrium in the marriage is like a gyroscope. It just stays centered and that's a good thing. I think men should want to be associated with powerful women. I think it's even glamorous to a lot of guys. I dated a lot of professional women and I was always delighted with their company.

BWA: In closing, is there anything that you'd like to tell the rest of the male population out there?

STEPHEN: Get with it, guys. Learn to recognize a powerful woman when you see her. A lot of us are stubborn and set in our ways, but if we open ourselves up a little bit we can see that there are women out there who are capable of doing our job or doing it even better than we do. Let's have more respect for women, and really see them as the wonderful and delightful creatures they are.

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